Dr Emil Lenc ~ Imaging Radio Skies – The Astronomy Astrophiz Podcasts

Emil:
So, as I discussed beforehand, the workforce’s constructed up with people who specialize in numerous elements of science or numerous elements of the telescope … we’;; have some who’re very skilled in how you can schedule  …and how you can function the telescope … others who’re maybe accustomed to the {hardware} that goes on the telescope … others with a specific science curiosity who  are very educated with spectral line work, for instance, others that are very skilled in polarization work, others which are skilled in pulsar timing work.

So having all these totally different experiences is basically vital to check all these numerous elements of the telescope. And we’d often undergo what we name like “busy weeks” …  the place everybody will get collectively. We’ll have some observations that we have to take a look at and we’ll simply test that by and thru to ensure these observations truly make sense and the telescope’s doing what we anticipate it to do.

And it’s actually enjoyable to do! They’re very intense but it surely’s an incredible workforce setting once you’re form of deep into that sort of work.

Brendan:
Okay … and the workforce is pushed by an enormous quantity of experience and curiosity and occasional?

Emil: Yeah … particularly espresso.

Brendan:
Superb. Look, we all know that there’s loads of early profession astronomers and potential PhDs that pay attention to those episodes. And we like to present a little bit of details about what it’s wish to be a scientist and an astrophysicist particularly and what does a typical week seem like for you once you’re out in the midst of that commissioning section of a venture? I do know there’s in all probability not such a factor as a typical week however are you able to inform us a couple of week’s work?

Emil:
Yeah so it’ll rely on you realize, when that week is. So, you realize, as I discussed, there’s like ‘busy weeks’ the place it may be very intense interval the place everybody’s working collectively very carefully in the identical room, making an attempt to grasp problems with, you realize, which have been seen within the telescope. However I believe, you realize, extra usually, you’ll have every week the place you’re not in the identical room, you’ll be, you realize, in your group or working from house, wherever it could be. And also you’ll be connecting up through Zoom, or we regularly use Groups, or no matter system we use.to attach collectively, we’ll have additionally numerous methods of chatting collectively utilizing like Slack or Mattermost and discussing principally observations that we’ve had, or suggesting new observations to attempt to diagnose a specific downside that we all know exists.

You principally attempt to discover methods that you could make a remark so simple as attainable to focus on an issue to be able to precisely work out the place that downside is going on. After which discover a method to attempt to alleviate that downside, you realize, like whether or not it’s on account of software program or {hardware} or a limitation of the system because it at the moment stands.

Yeah, it’s principally that. I imply, if we’re fortunate, typically we truly discover new issues as we’re observing for commissioning. And that may be fairly thrilling as nicely. That sort of throws a little bit of a curveball and everybody begins, you realize, investigating that, significantly once you’re unsure … okay, is that this simply one thing bizarre that simply occurred with the telescope or is it one thing actual?

So there could be loads of pleasure as we attempt to examine that.

Brendan:  That sounds exhausting to me, and thanks.  

Emil: That’s the place the espresso comes into it.

Brendan:
Now, the massive factor that’s taking place over there within the West is after all, the event of the SKA-Low, the Australian part of the world’s largest astronomical observatory, the multi -billion greenback SKA arrays being constructed right here in Australia and the sister arrays being constructed over in South Africa.

Are you able to inform us about the principle focus of your present SKA work?

Emil:
My foremost focus is basically studying as a lot as we will with the Pathfinders in order that that may be utilized to the brand new telescopes which are being constructed.

So within the case of ASKAP, how will we cope with a number of beams, which permits us to see a wider discipline of the sky, and likewise work with the MWA. How does the ionosphere, for instance, have an effect on our observations? As a result of the SKA-low will encounter precisely the identical points or challenges I ought to say. It’s making an attempt to get an understanding of what it’s like to look at with a smaller scale instrument first earlier than diving into the an enormous manufacturing industrial scale kind of model of that instrument and hopefully making an attempt to beat among the challenges earlier than we dive into that simply to make the issue a bit simpler.

Brendan:
Thanks, Emil. Now we all know very nicely that science doesn’t all the time run easily … as you’ve simply indicated … and we’re very pleased to place our propeller heads on for a really quick time. May you inform us among the particulars of a specific a part of your analysis that you simply’re engaged on proper now that’s driving you loopy or is astonishingly thrilling? Or maybe it’s even each?

Emil:
Nicely, one of many loopy bits, driving me loopy … was as a result of ASKAP has 36 beams, we needed to take sure shortcuts in the way in which that we calibrate the instrument. And consequently, one of many issues was that sources sort of jiggle between the totally different beams.

So we couldn’t very precisely pinpoint the place they have been within the sky. They’d all the time be barely off from the place we anticipated them to be. And that was conflated much more when you begin combining the beams collectively to create a picture as a result of in a single beam, it’ll be seeing it as barely to the left and the neighbouring beam, it’ll be seen as barely to the precise, and you then mix them and so they sort of get barely blurred.

For essentially the most half, that’s not an enormous downside, however it’s a downside if, for instance, you see one thing go off and also you’re making an attempt to work out, okay, the place was that? And you then’re making an attempt to establish an optical counterpart to that, you realize, once more, going again to the crime scene investigation to attempt to perceive, “Okay, what is that this factor?”

It will get difficult as a result of then you will have a number of optical sources in that area of the place that blur is. And also you’re not then positive, okay, is it the one which’s nearer to the left or the one which’s nearer to the precise? You sort of lose that data. There’s one thing that’s been conserving us busy for the previous … gosh … I’d say a yr now could be making an attempt to work out a means by which we will truly right for that within the first place earlier than we begin combining all of the collectively.

Now we have a put up doc in Western Australia that’s truly been performing some nice work in principally evaluating every a type of beams with surveys finished at different wavelengths that are very exact after which utilizing that as a sort of information of how you can right every a type of beams earlier than we mix them into what we name a mosaic picture and that’s getting actually near being accomplished now.

So I believe that’ll be a recreation changer by way of then doing these cross matching with different wavelengths, so optical and infrared and x -ray and so forth. So it’ll be actually implausible to get that completed. When it comes to issues that I discover actually fascinating, lately I assume these Lengthy Interval Transients have turn into fairly a factor.

Fairly a couple of have been found now with ASKAP. In order that they’re initially found with the Murchison Widefield Array, however now increasingly more we’re seeing them with ASKAP as nicely.

They usually’re nonetheless a little bit of an enigma. We’re making an attempt to grasp precisely what they’re. They don’t appear to be simply easy pulsars, as a result of they pulse like each six hours for a few of them. And that’s simply means too lengthy to be defined by a easy pulsar.

In order that they’re making an attempt to grasp, “Okay, the place does that vitality come from to create these pulses?”

And why are they so common? It’s one thing that’s been, there’s been fairly a little bit of intensive analysis in that space lately.

Brendan:
Incredible! Now, let’s take a look at among the extra private sides. We’ll take a bit break from science. We’re going to get again to it very quickly. I had a take a look at a few of your revealed papers and I discovered nicely over 130 of them on the ArXiv server alone, and I seen that you simply wrote fairly numerous them when the COVID pandemic was at its peak again in 2020 -2021.

Now, how did COVID have an effect on you and your loved ones And what was the influence in your analysis? Had been there classes learnt?

Emil:
That’s an incredible query truly. It’s a fancy query too. I do know for lots of people it was a really troublesome interval. Social isolation, you realize, being separated from household, pals, it may be actually troublesome.

I’d should admit I’m a reasonably introverted individual by nature. So it had virtually little results on me in any respect. And I don’t have household right here in Sydney, all my household’s again in Melbourne. So aside from, you realize, not with the ability to go to them in Melbourne, which we’d in all probability solely do annually anyway, simply throughout Christmas breaks. It didn’t have an enormous impact by way of me personally. So I used to be in my pure setting, so to talk as a result of, you realize, simply naturally introverted. I imply, it allowed me to have much less distractions from, you realize, work, you realize, conferences and fewer time in, you realize, pollution-generating commutes into the workplace and again.

It additionally gave me extra time to pursue hobbies and spend time with household, which, you realize, to a point, I’d uncared for over time as nicely, simply ’trigger I didn’t have the time. And the lockdowns did an incredible job for enhancing progress in othe communication strategies, you realize, like video conferencing, workforce chat-type instruments, numerous different workforce instruments.

So it was actually nice from that side and it gave me a lot of time to truly do work on science and all kinds of science.

The draw back, after all, was that every single day of feeling a bit like Groundhog Day and I have a tendency to love this like monotony in order that sort of drove me stir loopy after a whilst you know… regardless of not having to satisfy folks simply you realize going by the identical routine every single day simply sort of drove me loopy.

The opposite draw back is you fall into the lure of not with the ability to separate work at home life so paradoxically there have been instances the place you realize, we’re all in our personal rooms doing our work and examine and didn’t work together as a lot as we thought we should always have, though we’re below the identical roof.

On the similar time, as a result of my son was going by highschool on the time, I actually felt for these youngsters that have been in highschool or these going by college or beginning a brand new job, as a result of that’s the time the place you actually begin to construct up lifelong relationships with pals. And that’s actually arduous to do when you can’t work together.

You are able to do it to a sure diploma on-line, but it surely’s not the identical.

And I additionally felt for those who have been within the service and leisure trade, you realize, they have been actually hit arduous. So, you realize, there’s loads of downsides.

There are some optimistic sides. I believe the opposite draw back was I felt prefer it was sort of the beginning of a lot of ridiculous conspiracy theories and, stunning to me, a minimum of, mistrust of science. And I believe that impact continues to be persevering with to today.

, vaccination numbers are down and loads of preventable ailments are coming again. , ailments we thought we removed.

Yeah, in order that’s an actual shock to me. I imply, I nonetheless largely work at home and I nonetheless fairly take pleasure in it. I’m definitely a lot however I’m a bit extra cautious now on the subject of separating house from work and we’ve acquired two canine and so they typically assist in reminding me that it’s time to sign off on the finish of the day.

Brendan:
Yeah the expansion of the anti -vax trade has been an enormous disappointment for me personally and likewise there seems to be some worldwide assaults on science itself … however look let’s transfer on and get again to the science.

May you inform us the way you’ve been utilizing the ASKAP array to search out some attention-grabbing radio sources you hinted at earlier?

You’ve lately written them up as analysis papers and people lengthy interval radio transits that you simply’ve found?

Emil:
Positive. Nicely, I’ll preface that by saying that I didn’t uncover the primary one. I’ve found fairly a couple of of them, however they have been initially found by Natasha Hurley-Walker (Dr Natasha Hurley-Walker Ep 61) with the MWA. She in all probability … even sooner than that, I believe there was one found with the VLA. Gosh … have to be like 20 years in the past.

ASKAP is a extremely implausible instrument simply because it, as I discussed beforehand, is exploring a distinct section area than what was explored beforehand. Firstly, we’ve acquired a large discipline of view.

We’ve acquired actually good decision and fairly good sensitivity. So it’s permitting us to see pretty giant areas of the sky in a single chunk and with the ability to take a look at that in nice element. And since I used to be working as a part of the commissioning workforce, always photos that come by, significantly on the lookout for what we name imaging artefacts.

So once you see a point-like supply, you anticipate that to be point-like. You don’t need it to have star-like flares or some bizarre, optimistic and unfavourable undulations emanating from that supply, as a result of that’s often a touch that one thing’s gone fallacious with both the telescope or the processing of the info.

However typically, when you get used to these artefacts, typically you may acknowledge a sure sample in these artefacts, which suggests it’s not truly an issue with the instrument, however relatively that the supply different whereas we’re observing it.

For instance, it flashed or abruptly decreased in brightness or abruptly elevated. And that prompts me then to say “Okay, that is attention-grabbing, let’s have a better take a look at it.”

And that’s how I discovered a couple of attention-grabbing sources. The opposite means is utilizing one thing that known as polarization, which is the precise orientation of sunshine.

And there’s one specific kind of polarization known as round polarization, which astronomically talking is just not as frequent. And also you don’t… principally only some choose forms of sources will emit round polarization. And but it’s one thing that’s very straightforward to picture, as a result of there’s hardly something within the sky like that emits this emission.

So that you principally find yourself with a lot of clean photos. Up to now, folks by no means bothered to try this for that cause, or why ought to I picture in round polarization all I’m going to get is a clean picture?

However from my perspective, I believed … “Nicely, truly, that’s a extremely implausible method to discover one thing that modifications within the sky”  …  one thing attention-grabbing that modifications, as a result of when you see it in round polarization, it instantly captures your focus that … “Okay, that is one thing attention-grabbing to take a look at.”

So we discovered the primary pulsar with ASKAP by truly simply round polarization.

We weren’t even on the lookout for pulsars, we have been observing a flare star and we noticed one other supply sort of additional out within the discipline and we thought, “Oh, what’s that?” And ultimately discovered that it simply occurred to be a pulsar that all the pulsar surveys immediately simply occurred to overlook for no matter cause.

And we’ve been utilizing that method for locating lengthy interval transients as a result of they’ll typically depart a signature in round polarization. We discovered heaps and heaps of radio stars, which Laura (Dr Laura Driessen – Ep 169)  I believe she was on the present beforehand, she would have talked about. They can be utilized to search out pulsars, magnetars.

And who is aware of … in all probability some sources that we don’t even know what they’re. So it’s a very easy method to discover such sources.

The opposite factor that I’ve been utilizing is chopping up the info into smaller time scales. So pulsars usually happen in a short time on one second time scale. So often milliseconds to seconds. However ASKAP photos in 10 second chunks. So wherever between 10 seconds and 10 hours.

So that offers you a time scale that’s not usually probed. And it simply so occurs that these lengthy interval transients do sort of happen on these very long time scales. In order that they’re typically missed by telescopes that observe for a shorter time frame, and likewise missed by these which are solely very quick time scales as a result of their pulses are too large that they’ll simply miss them.

So it’s truly been nice having ASKAP… it has been actually helpful for locating these sorts of sources.

Brendan: It Seems like a good looking instrument. Thanks. Okay. You’ve painted the massive image of imaging and commissioning radio telescopes arrays. We’ve simply heard in regards to the pleasure of discovery, discovering issues in your knowledge that has been neglected.

We’ve checked out your most present work. We’ve gone all sciencey for just a bit whereas. Would you want to inform us about a few of these different issues outdoors of your astro ardour that recurrently deliver you nice pleasure? Now, I imagine you might have a really musical household.

Emil: My son, for positive, he’s actually into music. I attempted to get him excited by science. He loves science, however yeah, that wasn’t his forte. He loves music and I really like music.

Arin loves music, however he’s the primary one to actually take it on as a profession. So, yeah, I’m actually proud that he’s taken it on in additional methods than one as a result of, you realize, if he did science and it’s like, oh, you realize, it will look like I did all the things to assist him to get into that. However principally him doing music, I’ve zero music abilities in the case of enjoying an instrument.

In order that’s all his personal work. Every little thing he’s achieved has been his achievement, and that makes me much more proud. In order that’s implausible.

Brendan: Incredible. Now, I could edit this out. You’ll in all probability recognize my story. my two daughters. I might have liked them each to turn into astrophysicists … however certainly one of them is a filmmaker for the Kids’s Hospital in Melbourne and the opposite one’s the Music Librarian for the Tasmanian Symphony Orchestra. Each of them recognize science   ,,, however each of them are very inventive their output.

Emil: That’s implausible, utilizing either side of the mind. I imply, that’s … you couldn’t ask for extra. I imply, I don’t anticipate everybody to, you realize, to wish to do science or, you realize, engineering as a profession, however I believe having an understanding of it …

Brendan: Sure.

Emil: And appreciation of it’s, you realize, actually vital, even when you pursue different profession avenues, you realize, it’s simply having that understanding is so so vital.

Brendan: Certainly. Now we’ve finished all the massive image stuff, we’ve finished the precise science, we’ve actually dived into it, however now the microphone is all yours and also you’ve acquired the chance to present us your favourite rant or rave about one of many challenges that we face in science, in fairness, in representations of range or in science denialism. One in every of my favourite, or science profession paths, or maybe your personal ardour for analysis or our enormous human quest for brand new data.

The microphones all yours, Emil.

Emil: My gosh, what number of hours have you ever acquired?

I’ve to be a bit cautious with what I say as nicely, as a result of I’ve to preface this by saying that something I say any further can be my very own private opinion and never essentially something to do with the organisation I work with, so I simply should be a bit cautious with that.

I completely agree that range is vital and supporting range in organisations, you realize, simply aside from plain previous human decency, I imply, it gives different advantages. I imply, having folks with totally different backgrounds, totally different, you realize, cultural views, totally different language views, but it surely impacts your mind and the way you assume and gives totally different viewpoints that you simply wouldn’t in any other case get if everybody thinks the identical means, we’re not going to maneuver ahead. We’re all the time simply going to be reinventing the wheel and doing the identical issues.

In reality, it simply form of brings to thoughts a Chinese language proverb, (speaks in

international language ‘Bù pà màn, jiù pà tíng’) which is principally saying, “Don’t be afraid of going slowly, be afraid of standing nonetheless.”

It’s principally …  when you’re not making progress, shifting ahead. You’re successfully going backwards.

So I believe having all these totally different cultural experiences and non secular experiences, though I’m not significantly non secular myself, however there’s little question that that has an impact on how folks understand the world.

Having these totally different perceptions and experiences all add worth. And we have to embrace that, not ignore it, and even downplay it. So yeah, so I’m all the time actually, all for having a higher range within the group.

When it comes to science denialism …  yeah, it’s scary, and it’s an enormous hazard for us all. I imply, admittedly, science doesn’t all the time get it proper the primary time, however that’s the place folks misunderstand what science is about.

Science is a course of.

And positive, we could not get it proper the primary place, however science is self–correcting and self -improving. So that you’ll have another scientists will attempt to repeat the work that has been revealed and say, “Maintain on, there’s one thing fallacious right here.” And that’s the way it turns into self-correcting. They’ll present proof to say, “No, it’s not truly that is What you thought was taking place, this …  is what is definitely taking place.”

So once we speak about giving equal weight to the identical factors of view, one must be cautious that even when it has been revealed, it hasn’t solely simply been revealed and hasn’t actually had an opportunity to be examined by different folks. As a result of when you give that loads of weight, though it’s opposite to all the things that we all know up to now … Then there’s a hazard that individuals assume, “Oh, okay, perhaps there’s one thing in that.”

Carl Sagan had an incredible quote, principally, “Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.” That’s so true. We actually must be cautious about selling issues as being science once they’re not. I believe there’s additionally a hazard, significantly that, you realize, they could argue: “Oh, nothing actually comes out from pure science, you realize, like astronomy.”

And it’s, it’s truly not true. , astronomy has pushed loads of applied sciences, significantly in optics and electronics. And it’s by the cross-fertilization of that that, you realize, we’ve acquired issues like Wi -Fi, we’ve acquired CCD cameras, you realize, everybody now has a cellphone with a digital camera in it. Everybody has a cellphone with a GPS in it. , if that astronomy GPS wouldn’t work. we’ve acquired issues like photo voltaic panels, MRI scanners, all of them have you realize tentacles that attain again to you realize astronomy, analysis in astronomy.

I believe additionally you realize astronomy is a good way to place issues into perspective. we’re not on the centre of the universe and the universe doesn’t revolve round us.

photos just like the ‘Pale Blue Dot’ taken with Voyager 1 … and it simply demonstrated how small our Earth is even on the size of the photo voltaic system, not to mention the galaxy or the universe.

And it additionally exhibits us how valuable life is. , all the folks that we all know, everybody that existed, everybody that we ever knew was on that one little dot, that one little blue dot and it highlights how vital it’s for us to care for our planet and for different life residing on it.

I personally really feel astronomy provides a way of humility. It’s very humbling. I reckon if extra folks studied it and understood astronomy, maybe there’d be much less hate on the earth and perhaps much less wars.

Maybe I’ll be a bit idealistic, a bit romantic on the subject of astronomy, however to a point I believe that may be the case.

And I believe, you realize, I assume the media additionally has a job right here in having a greater understanding of science. I imply, loads of the science reporters that used to exist now not try this. , they’re not paid to grasp science. It’s actually, it’s all the time about creating controversy. And I believe that creates a picture within the public that science is maybe doing the fallacious factor after which science is already funded at fairly low ranges, … a minimum of in Australia and you realize we’ll simply fall behind if that continues, but it surely wants public engagement in any other case it’s not going to go wherever.

Brendan: Precisely and that ‘pale blue dot’ … it’s extremely …  each dignifying and humbling. And ahhh … yeah … you’ve jogged my memory that science doesn’t sleep … and I’ve acquired an interview developing quickly … and we’re going to be speaking about how Andromeda and the Milky Means … aah, we’ve thought for the final twenty years that they’re going to bash into one another … but it surely appears the info is now saying we’ll simply miss one another

Emil: Heh!

Brendan: … I used to be planning on hanging round for one more 5 billion years …

Emil: Hahahah!

Brendan: …. however I believe I’ll miss it too.

Emil: That’s precisely it!  It goes again to what I used to be saying …  that we could not all the time be proper, however we self-correct. If we discover proof that’s on the contrary of what we thought was true, we have now to vary our minds. Now we have to go … , the proof is saying we will’t simply maintain holding on to what was if proof exhibits it’s one thing else.

Brendan: Precisely! Science is rarely dogmatic. Okay. Thanks, Emil. Is there the rest we should always be careful for within the close to future? What are you conserving your eye on?

Emil: Nicely, you realize, the precise SKA progress is one thing that’s fascinating to regulate. I assume significantly I’m listening to what’s taking place with SKA-Low … though I’m in a roundabout way concerned with it. It’s sort of near my coronary heart as a result of it’s an extension of what the MWA did.

In case you’re , I can simply point out briefly that they’ve now constructed the primary take a look at stations of SKA-Low. In order that they’ve acquired 4 stations and every certainly one of these has 256 of those so-called ‘Christmas tree antennas,’ they principally seem like little Christmas bushes, which provides it that broad vary of frequencies that it may possibly observe at.

And there’s a current press launch with one of many first photos from that, which is basically superb on condition that it’s solely been put in …  to have already got photos is kind of a serious effort.

And from what I perceive, they’ve now acquired 21 stations deployed, however solely 4 of these are at the moment on-line. And the plan is to have about 16 of these on-line by the tip of the yr. And in the end, SKA-Low could have 512 stations unfold out to about, I believe it’s 74 kilometers, whereas the MWA at the moment solely goes out to about six kilometers. So meaning you get a extremely nice enhance in decision of the instrument so you may see a lot finer particulars and also you’ll even have a lot higher sensitivity due to the bigger variety of stations.

I believe for me the thrilling factor is just not all of the issues that they are saying they’re going to see with this instrument, however inevitably they’ll see issues that they didn’t anticipate to see and that’s the place I get excited …

As a result of once more, it throws a curveball into our understanding of the universe. In case you see one thing that you simply didn’t anticipate to see, that’s superior.

That’s what retains me excited every day.

If we simply maintain seeing the identical factor again and again, you then’re probably not studying something new. So it sort of challenges our present theories and understanding of the universe.

So … Yeah, that’s what will get me excited. 

Brendan: Precisely! Thanks. I’m trying ahead to seeing these first few moments of the universe, which I’m pretty assured that the SKA goes to disclose … loads of issues we will hardly even think about.

Okay, nicely, thanks a lot, Dr. Emil Lenc, on behalf of all of our listeners and particularly from me this has been implausible it’s been actually thrilling to be talking with you about your work discovering out about your life and thanks particularly in your time …  I understand how extremely busy you guys are … and good luck together with your subsequent adventures, and for all of your future travels.

Brendan: Thanks Emil.

Emil: Oh you’re welcome … It’s been a pleasure. Have an incredible day.

Brendan: Bye!

Emil: Bye!

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